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Living in a Quonset!!!!

topic posted Thu, November 24, 2005 - 7:32 PM by  Will
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Hey gang,

I just found this tribe and joined.
My partner and I decided to build a quonset hut, a steel, half circle - as our structural beginnings for our new home in the Canadian Kootenays.
We've done virtually everything ourselves, the concrete work, the plumbing, electrical, the framing, designing - it's all to code and totally sensational to live in.
Our building is 34' wide (across the curve) and only 28' deep, so it's not like being in a tunnel at all. Both ends are mainly windows, overlooking nature and a large lake. We're at the end of a 4X4 road.
Our living room has a 22' foot ceiling (at it's peak). Most of our walls are curved and will be covered with plaster to keep the vibe organic.

We've really had to scratch our heads a lot to make this structure work, but I'd HIGHLY RECOMMEND anyone to consider it as an option - gives you virtually unlimited design options inside as there are NO structural post required inside. Also very fireproof and strong - relatively fast to put up the main structure.

We have been living off-grid with a big-ass generator, inverter, batteries, etc., but will be hooked up to the grid in the next 2 days.

We are using propane tankless water heating, and a high efficiency, zero clearance wood stove.

We use a 2 way satellite for internet.

If anyone has any questions, we'd be glad to give you info.

Looking forward to loooooooking through these posts for info and ideas.

I've posted some pix - and will get some new ones up soon.

Ciao4now

Will in Canada
posted by:
Will
Canada
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    Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

    Thu, November 24, 2005 - 11:13 PM
    When I was growing up there was a former marine living down the road from my cousin up in the mountains. His quonset hut was more like the ones at Camp Pendleton (longer and lower), two of them side by side with a connecting passage in the middle. Years later he sprayed them with tar foundation coating, covered them with plastic, then packed sandbags on top like bricks in an archway form. With the sandbags in place it took almost no wood to heat the thing in the winter.

    I always wanted to do this with an Airstream trailer (huge living spaces give me the willies).
  • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

    Fri, November 25, 2005 - 10:59 AM
    Will, Tell me more about the zero clearance wood stove. Did you use concrete for the roof/walls?
    On the previous post...check out earth berm or earth bag buildings. Lotsa cool stuff especially in the desert for this style. Basically filling sandbags with dirt and stacking them in various shapes. A-a-ah life in a bunkerLOL
    • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

      Fri, November 25, 2005 - 11:13 AM
      Hey Rich,

      We just built a concrete perimeter - footings and a stem wall in the (partial) basement area. The steel building creates walls and roof (see pix) all without the need for any interior support. Thus, we could actually rip out all the interior, gut the place and totaly redesign the inside in the future if we want.


      The wood stove is made by a company called R.S.F. We wanted to use wood heat exclusively, and NOT have to build a masonry chimney around something.
      We have wood walls on both sides of this zero clearance insert, and just had to purchase a special, stupidly expensive insulated chimney, in order to meet the safety standards. These woodstove companies all seem to also manufacture their own chimney, which MUST be used to meet certification standards - it's a bit of a scam really - the price of the stove virtually doubles by the time you buy all the required stovepipe, storm collars, radiation shields, rain caps....


      The fireplace rocks! It's a very high efficiency unit, and we chose this model, because it is one of few which can be operated with the doors open, to enjoy the crackling of a real wood fire.

      Thanks for your interest.

      W

      ;0)
  • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

    Wed, November 30, 2005 - 2:30 PM
    I saw your pics and it looks way nice! Awesome! Where did you get the steel half-circle? About how much money would you say you've had to put in, not including man hours? Also, how long have you worked on it? Where did you get the idea?
    • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

      Wed, November 30, 2005 - 3:13 PM
      Yes I was wondering about costs as well.

      How much land are you on? How long have you been there? And about how much was that? (Sorry for such basic questions. I'm looking to make a major change soon and am seeking preliminary info.)

      How much have you spend on materials on top of the land? Any particular breakdowns would be helpful.

      What kind of land modifications have you made?

      Are you doing any self-sufficient electrical - like solar or wind?

      Pix look nice. Very intriguing.
  • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

    Wed, November 30, 2005 - 4:52 PM
    hey will an co, congratulations! real nice! whatever the obode, if self made like that, it is a million times more worth while than any commercial rabbit hutch like those which almost all live in here in swiss cities.. I wish you many many happy hours in your new home. blessings, jana

    P.S: quick question: the windows on the arched side, did you have to doctor those, i.e. custom make them etc, or could you use preexisting frames?

    If I had such different shapes windows across a big wall, I might think about making them different colours, kind a like a giant stained glass mosaic..
    What are your future plans about interior? colours, textures?
    What are your professions, related to this in any way?

    P.s, P.s: end of questions..congratulations again, very nice indeed.
    • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

      Wed, November 30, 2005 - 9:04 PM
      yaaa will, spill out! i gotta say, its beautiful, im totally inspired. i will one day sell my downtown montreal house, and make my own (although i kno nothing about building its always been a dream) and ur place looks fabulous. any info would be appreciated. and post more pics too. cant wait
      love
      manu
    • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

      Wed, November 30, 2005 - 9:32 PM
      Hi Will,

      Cool house! One thing I'm wondering about... How noisy is it when it rains? I've hung out in a few quonset huts in my life, and they're hella noisy in a rainstorm. How's yours?

      Peace,
      ~Jessa~
  • Re: Loving Living in a Quonset!!!!

    Thu, December 1, 2005 - 11:56 AM
    Hey all,

    Thanks so much for your interest in our quonset.

    Let me see...

    Overall answers:
    We bought the steel building itself (16 arches, each one 2' wide, 22' tall and 45' wide) from a company Future Steel in Canada, but there are steel buildings all over the place, and each offers a very similar structure.

    Our metal cost about $17K Canadian. We could have bought one for at least 1/2 this price in the US, but it wouldn't have been strong enough for the local snow load. We ended up going with 14 guage building -Very strong.

    We are on 10 acres in the middle of nowhere (now-here?) in the Kootenay's in British Columbia, S.W. Canada.
    The 10 acres cost $30K Cdn, 8 years ago - remember that there was only a logging road, no power line, no services of any kind.

    The prices in the area are climbing steadily.

    We are on a creek, and spent months trying to sort out a micro-hydro system, but even with that and solar panels, we wouldn't be able to meet all our power needs, and the expense would have been immense. We've been using a BIG generator for 6 months (we just put in on the market for sale) and just got hooked up to the grid this Monday.

    Mixed feelings there.

    We get our water (gravity fed) from the creek, and put in an 'infiltrator' septic field. Our land is very rocky, so we needed quite a large field.

    We have an inverter and some batteris which we've been using, but will be selling now.

    We bought all the windows at an amazing place in Spokane Washington. They have 33 buildings of NEW, discontinued windows at amazing prices.
    We bought them before building the endwalls.

    Lots of curved walls everwhere. We have many ideas about finishing, but nothing definite. We will be doing a lot of organic finishes, plaster, etc. inside.

    We used spray foam insulation for the metal, the only thing that will work to prevent air gaps and thus, condensation. It is mainly a large open space with a large loft - very open and bright.
    The foam insulates the sound quite a bit - the sound of the rain is subtle and soothing.

    I'LL PUT UP SOME NEW PIX IN THE NEXT WEEK.

    We are using Propane tankless hot water heat, and a fireplace for heating.

    We've been working on it for about 18 months, but that includes doing dynamite work to help out the road, which is VERY ROUGH and long.

    My partner and I have built virtually the whole thing ourselves - plumbing, electrical, septic (all to local building codes, inspected) framing, concrete work - we did it all.

    She is a silversmith, signpainter, astrologist, faux finsih painter (film industry), singer/songwriter...

    I do mainly photography, cinematography, graphics, video editing, and lately, a LOT of building, electrical, etc.

    We live in a very small community of radical, freaks, arts types and 'gardeners' - only about 500 people in all, along the shore of a large lake.

    Our view is amazing = NATURE, no houses, no roads, just the lake, the forest, the glacier, etc. for as far as the eye can see.


    That's it for now. We're busy with lots of developments, so I'll post much better, new pix soon.

    Ciao

    ;0)
    • Re: Loving Living in a Quonset!!!!

      Thu, December 1, 2005 - 12:25 PM
      thanx sooo much for this info will! gee the price seems very reasonable to me- i can do that.

      some friends have been trying to get me to move out west and nelson/koots is a possibility.

      and ur partner is a silversmith? so am i? wow what a small world!

      would it have been possible to put in electricity if u wantd tho?
      • Re: Loving Living in a Quonset!!!!

        Thu, December 1, 2005 - 11:04 PM
        Hey Manu,

        I wanted to be clear = we DID get hooked up to the utility grid this past monday.

        I was an expensive, stressful and show process, but in the end, our life will be much more predictable, managable (the propane costs for the genie were enormous) and I'm sure has significantly increased our property value (good/bad).

        Will
        • Re: Loving Living in a Quonset!!!!

          Fri, December 2, 2005 - 12:13 PM
          Great info. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure you're happy with and proud of your project as it develops. Sounds wonderful.

          Personally, I wouldn't be so quick to ditch the batteries and inverter. As world oil demand continues to rise and supplies begin to dwindle, you may want a supplemental source of power. (Ever looked into adding a windmill?) In the meantime, you can keep costs lower while continuing to use the grid. (Read about "Peak Oil" if you don't already know about it.)
    • Re: Loving Living in a Quonset!!!!

      Thu, December 1, 2005 - 9:06 PM
      Hi, verrry interesting house!

      You mention that several dealers offer "similar structure". I sent for brochures from a number of dealers and found that many sell the exact same product under their own names, as evidenced by the same photos in their brochures. On the telephone, one of them confirmed this. Nothing wrong with that; just something to be aware of to avoid confusion.

      All my best,
      Elliot
      • Re: Loving Living in a Quonset!!!!

        Thu, December 1, 2005 - 11:01 PM
        Hey E,

        We found that there are a few different steel building manufacturers, but certainly there ARE many selling product from the same fabricator/steel factory.

        One key thing is probably to get something from an 'established' company, so that if you decide to add something later, (an extended overhang, etc.) you know that youll be able to get the exact same product...

        One of the 'telling' differences is the style of baseplate(s) they offer. The bolt pattern and amount of overlap/support from the base upward shows a bit of variation from one company to another. Overall, I think that most of the actual product is pretty similar when you get down to it. It's actually a very simple and incredibly sturdy design.

        It took a bit of headscratching to figure out how to adapt it for residential usage, but so far, we're thrilled.
        • Re: Loving Living in a Quonset!!!!

          Sat, December 3, 2005 - 10:31 AM
          Ah, yes. The base plate -- actually, the mounting requirements in general -- are of accute interest.

          Because... one option I'm thinking about is to use a large radius Quonset hut as a roof, perched atop straight walls, with several feet overhang. This would require tieing the top of the walls together so the arch cannot flatten out under the force of gravity, and securing the arch at a point other than the base. Yes, I'm still in the brainstorming and researching stage! A long roof-overhang is desirable in my sun-scorched climate -- Northern California.

          Having handled your own arch, panel by panel, do you have any thoughts on my silly idea?

          Of course, I could simply buy a longer "tunnel" and set the end walls in as far as I like, but that design is not quite suitable for my site. (I already live on the site.) It will be a few more years before I build, so I keep learning in the meantime. Cheers! Elliot
          • Re: Loving Living in a Quonset!!!!

            Sat, December 3, 2005 - 6:51 PM
            Hey Elliot,
            You have a few options that I'm aware of.
            One, is to use an 'S' shaped Quonset, as opposed to a (half round) 'Q' style as we've used. The 'S' has staight walls up each side, before the curve begins. We looked into this, but decided to go with a half curve and have it large enough that we wouldn't loose too much floor space.

            You can also build wood walls, as high as you like, then have the arch/baseplate mounted on top of them. If your walls extend to concrete stemwalls and footings which are buried, it makes things easier. The majority of the force down from the quonset, or any arch, falls straight down. There is some force pushing outward, we hired an architect to help us resolve this, but from what we were told, the only time this really can become a factor is with a major snow load, etc.

            As far as an overhang, in retrospect, I would have handled that differently. I followed the advice of an architect and another builder, but I think that I would have been better off to have the overhang suspended by a separate method, not attached to the building. There are many reasons for this, and we've been through a lot of stress and work to resolve this, but even using smaller concrete posts via sonatube or something would have really helped us when dealing with sealing the floor.

            It's involved, but in a regular house, the overhang DOES NOT go all the way to the ground, which changes the water run-off considerations where the walls meet the foundation.

            That's it for now - gotta run, good luck!!

            w

            ;0)
            • quonsets on ebay

              Thu, December 15, 2005 - 4:55 PM
              FYI, there are some quonsets on Ebay, being sold direct from the manufacturer. The company, American Duro Steel, is supposedly based in Pittsburgh PA. The prices seem fairly low-- some smaller models going for under $3,000, with a 55' wide x 40 long x 19 wide going for $7,000.00. Note-- many have the "open ends", so you have to build your own end enclosures/walls. The half-round quonsets still seem, to me, to have a lot of lost space inside, in terms of not being able to use all of the upper space, as in for a second floor or loft. How have folks solved this one?

              Anyone know what it costs to have someone else (a professional) erect these quonsets for you? I don't have the skill/equipment/local friends needed to do it on my own, so whatever I buy, I'm looking at hiring professionals to erect the structure. I've heard that you should figure on 1.5 x's the kit cost, for erection of the basic building. Anyone have any experience with Butler or Morton steel buildings, or pole barns by either of these companies or their peers? There's also an Ebay guy supposedly selling his information on how to buy these quonsets "for under $750". He's referring to 20x30 and 20x40 buildings. He has this info priced at $10.00. Anyone know anything about that?
  • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

    Fri, December 16, 2005 - 8:31 PM
    does two way satellite provide a fast upload speed for internet ?

    I've heard you have to rely on 56k like speed for uploading.
    • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

      Sat, December 17, 2005 - 2:59 AM
      I really love your home. Every time I check this thread I look at the pics & get a warm fuzzy. One of my good friends parents are trying to get everyone they know to move to Nelson.
  • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

    Mon, December 19, 2005 - 12:28 AM
    Hey All,

    Hope it's good where you are!?

    Amazing to be here (in the Kootenays' building my dream with the world's most amazing woman.

    I'm so blessed.

    Anyway,
    we now have a more detailed site at Home Sweet Quonset, with over 60 images from our journey thus far.

    As far as a general response: it's been a long, difficult and more expensive venture than anticipated, but here we are - living in paradise- working out the kinks. one by one.

    Today we begun installing our kick-ass bathtub, overlooking the snowtipped forest and the lake.

    Another subtle learning curve - presealing marble tiles BEFORE you install them, then again after the thinset adn mortor...

    It's all been a much bigger deal than we expected, but most of the stress has been the permits etc. required. If you are building in an area without a heavy snowload limitation, you should be able to put something up which is much lighter, cheaper and quicker to assemble than what we did.

    If we can help, drop us a line.

    All the best,

    Will&Michelle
    • Quonset Questions

      Wed, March 8, 2006 - 8:01 PM
      Dear Will and Michelle,
      NICE JOB!!!!! I have been toying with building a Quonset home for 4 years. Recently, after adding up what I pay in rent, I have been finalizing plans. My plans are far smaller and more modest than yours. Your curved and artistic framing is above and beyond anything I will ever attempt. You two should be really proud!!!!

      I am faced with many questions. If you would be willing to answer any of these I would greatly appreciate it. But you probably have a lot of homeowner responsibilities that are more important than my gazillion questions…so take your time.

      1- What product did you use for spray on insulation? What R value did you get? How hard was it to apply?
      2- How did you ventilate the roof and insulation? Or did you? What is required? Most info related to this is written for people who do not insulate and finish the arcs.
      3- Why did you use the base plate foundation instead of the old concrete trough? Any pros or cons?
      4- Most steel companies offer an end wall attachment that I believe amounts to a curved angle iron. Is this how you attached the end walls? can I get a photo? How did you seal this seam?
      5- Any suggestions for the framing of the endwalls? 2 or 1 section? How did you raise them into the arc? I am very intimidated by this although I have done some framing of traditional buildings in the past. That curve looks hard.
      6- It looks like you joined the wall at the lower 7.5” gutter part of the arc, could one do this in the upper seam part of the arc?
      7- Most of my literature suggests building the arcs on the ground and hoisting um up. Why did you build it from the sides to the middle as demonstrated in your photo?
      8- I noticed your “wood strapping” photos. Is “strapping” the term for this? How far are they spaced? What type and size lumber did you use? Do I see wire loops around the strapping, what are those for? What did you use to fasten this and seal the fasteners from rain?
      9- are you planning on putting up drywall or paneling or some other interior finishing? If so what? Are you planning an adding any additional framing to the “wood strapping” for support of the drywall(if that’s what you are using)? How are you calculating how much weight the arcs can hold (weight being insulation, fans, strapping, finishing etc)
      10- Do you plan on painting the roof? Why and with what?
      11- I have lived in A-frames. The heat went upstairs witch was only helpful when people slept in the loft. I know yours is a proper 2 story but you have an open ceiling. Any problems with heat? Any fans that you are adding and why? Can you give me any suggestions about airflow and heat management in an arc home?
      12- what is the “amazing place in Spokane Washington”?

      I learned a GREAT deal from your photos Thank you. If not an inconvenience. And if you have them. I would enjoy any closeup photos of your endwall framing, junctures of interior framing to the arc, joining of endwalls to the arc (especially the walls that move perpendicular to the ribs), photos of the strapping and plaster/drywall/finishing if you do so. Any photos of tricky things, things you are proud of, things you wish you would have known about before you started?

      Do you have any suggestions for those taking on a similar project? Mine will likely be several long 30x15' arcs.

      Nice Job!!!
      Thanks for the Photos they taught me a great deal,
      Pete
  • JIm
    JIm
    offline 0

    Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

    Tue, March 22, 2011 - 12:32 PM
    Where are the quonset pics, just had my slab poured, starting to build the quonset in 2 weeks?

    What did you use for endwalls?

    I am spraying 2 inches closed cell foam on entire interior and 4 inches on south end wall, 2 inches on north.
    • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

      Tue, March 22, 2011 - 1:17 PM
      Very cool.
      This changes my whole outlook on Qonsets. There's a ton of options for the end walls the first would be conventionall framing with wood but look into it, might be a better option than that.
      Just a non issue comment; I think Qonsets have that funk soul look. It would be really cool if they made Cortan (?) Quonset steel. It rusts and the rust stops and looks good as a finish in my view.
      Good luck and thanks for bringing back this thread. Tremendous information here.
      • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

        Tue, March 22, 2011 - 1:21 PM
        nontraditionalhousing.tribe.net/photos
        Starts in the lower left pic and goes to the next page.
        • JIm
          JIm
          offline 0

          Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

          Thu, March 24, 2011 - 1:49 PM
          I am going to use steel studs in the end walls, not sure on interior yet, they are pricey, bu tI need the pset/fire prevention for exterior facing.

          I am doing all off-grid with wind/solar.

          Windmill on well.

          All plumbing is interior exect grey water drain, using PEX, composte toilets.

          I will probably go with steel roll up doors for the ends, then I can park my RV inside while working on it.
          • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

            Thu, March 24, 2011 - 2:58 PM
            Maybe composting toilets tech has gotten better but my experience has been they are stinky-in your house.
            I think it is a good thing if you eliminate that problem or if you can handle the funky smell! Kidding.
            Question; If you double 5/8 sheetrock (typeX) outside, or if you have a single layer outside of 5/8 under your finish (stucco, metal sheathing, wood siding?) and inside couldn't you use wood framing? 2x6 would be best IMO.
            • JIm
              JIm
              offline 0

              Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

              Fri, March 25, 2011 - 6:42 AM
              We have several friends that live off-grid and we have never had an issue with compste toilets smelling, not enough dirt was used.

              I will stick with Steel Studs for end walls, interior I can use wood.

              I also want the exterior to be a farday cage and the studs are where I am attaching the low level current and grounding rod.
              • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

                Fri, March 25, 2011 - 4:43 PM
                Interesting-Faraday cages, checked it on wiki. My experience was 20odd years ago with composting toilets.
                • D
                  D
                  offline 136

                  Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

                  Fri, March 25, 2011 - 4:57 PM
                  saw about a handful of them at these various off grid places that we looked at and evidently none of those places had them set up probably because they were HOrrible and completely ruined whatever might have been done with the bathroom in terms of making it nice, unless the decor included hanging a gas mask on the bathroom wall?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

                    Fri, March 25, 2011 - 5:05 PM
                    It's a science I'm sure.
                    When I was sailing and working on boats there was a contingent of saliors who would not put a head in their boat, only a cedar bucket. Heads in boats have several drawbacks and smell is one the other is a hole in the hull. They are neo primitives after all- sailors that is.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    JIm
                    JIm
                    offline 0

                    Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

                    Mon, March 28, 2011 - 8:07 AM
                    A lot of it depends on teh quality of the dirt you are using.

                    The bathrooms have been cedar lined in the houses we have used them, but mainly a faint dirt odor.

                    As for the Faraday, EMF kills your sleeping patterns, use an EMF meter and get your bed to a reading of 20 or below and you'll tell the difference.

                    We are either going ot use the new 48 volt DC Split Minis for AC or the Split Mini 120/240 units, an extra string of batteries and 4 cells is enough either way.
                    • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

                      Mon, March 28, 2011 - 3:14 PM
                      Maybe this could be another topic; the NEC (whatever it might be now) specs an outlet every 6' of wall in a residence. That does not include lighting tho maybe it is interchangeable in some circumstances. Kitchen counters are a little different but you end up with a ton of wire and outlets.
                      There has to be current for EMF, so the sources are transformers to modems-cable boxes, trickle charging- What else? What in your dwelling is constantly drawing current thus creating EMF?
          • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

            Tue, May 31, 2011 - 2:43 AM
            RE: your plan for roll-up doors. I investigated all options, even bought a book on all types of aircraft hanger doors. Decided to fabricate my own vertical bi-folds. Cheaper and more effective. Each door rides on large swivel castors and I lose less than a foot of opening on each side when the doors are fully open. Since my RV is 8.5 feet wide, my 16-foot wide x 14-foot high opening is ample. Plus, when closed, the door adds to the structural integrity of the end wall. An added bonus: because of the exterior design, when closed, the doors virtually disappear, adding to our security.
  • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

    Mon, July 11, 2011 - 2:33 AM
    Your video has been a real inspiration! My wife and I are building a Quonset home in Florida and have started a blog about it:

    quonsetman.blogspot.com/

    I'd really appreciate any tips you might offer as to what we should watch out for and I've come up with some alternative energy use strategies specific to the unique shape and material of our Quonset that might benefit from your comments.

    Our building is 40' x 70' and 18' high. We bought it from a man who originally purchased it to expand his business, but changed his plan. It came with one end, but we're going to build our own ends.

    I'm insulating with aluminized Mylar laminated EPS panels glued flat against the metal shell. The inside finish on the panels is White Kraft paper, similar to drywall finish. Our floors are concrete slab and I'm using all metal studs for the interior walls. Our building is oriented North/South so the prevailing winds flow across the curved walls. Our view is not as spectacular as yours, but we like it.

    Your use of wood panels and planking is intriguing, but I don't know if we can afford the wood. We're both retired, so money is always a concern. We're located on 5+ acres of pretty flat, heavily-treed (hardwoods) land. The soil is sandy but should sustain our permaculture garden quite well.

    We'll look forward to any suggestions you may have and any comments you might leave on our blog. Thanks.
    • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

      Mon, July 11, 2011 - 10:18 PM
      Nice blog. I joined as a follower- nofiron.
      So what are you doing for flood proofing?? Is your foundation raised? Like retaining walls bringing the slab elevation up.
  • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

    Thu, October 20, 2011 - 7:51 PM
    How cheap are these buildings once you have the electricity and Plumbing in?
    • Re: Living in a Quonset!!!!

      Fri, October 21, 2011 - 5:09 PM
      Hello achbar i would say the more of the work you can do yourself the cheaper things can be. we built a 24 x30 2 bedroom rancher i done all the electrical and inside framing myself.my neighbors put the shell up while i plumbed another house on the mountain. i have only about 15,000 in the whole thing land and all.

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